Russian businessman Vikram Punia was born in India and came to Irkutsk for studies. It was also in Irkutsk that he founded his Pharmasyntez Company that provides today the citizens of our country with high-quality and, most importantly, affordable medicines for the treatment of diabetes mellitus, hepatitis, tuberculosis, HIV, cancer and other diseases. Vikram Punia has been a Russian citizen for years now, but he brings together the two countries dear to him not only in his soul, which he talks about in his interview given to the correspondent of the Russian Business Guide magazine.
- In recent years, an import substitution policy has been actively pursued in our country. What do you think, should such large countries as Russia and India produce everything their citizens need themselves? Or is it worth continue cooperating with other countries and not rejecting a so-called "international division of labour" principle?
- It is surely not worth talking about producing everything our citizens need ourselves, let alone trying. We do live on planet Earth, and we dependent on each other, in one way or another. But there are also some strategic issues such as food, medicines and any sovereign country should not depend on imports thereof. If something happens in the outside world, its citizens should not be affected.
As for the world as a whole, it develops very quickly right now, many different countries are developing and implementing new technologies, releasing new products. That is why, no single country in the world, no matter how advanced or developed that it is, is likely to produce everything itself.
- Yes, and, then, anyway, some countries would make some things better than others….
- Exactly. And then one observes, learns and transfers these new technologies. For instance, in our Pharmasyntez Company, on the one hand, we develop new technologies, but on the other hand, we quite often purchase and implement technologies of our partners at our plants. So, I believe, it is unnecessary to try to achieve 100 percent product independence.
- Since 2017, you are a member of the board of the Business Council for Cooperation with India. How does it contribute to the development of the relations between the two countries? What have you personally proposed and implemented within the Council? And what issues or problems should be necessarily resolved in the near future, according to you?
- At least, the Business Council ensures continuous dialogue between business partners from India and Russia. We often meet at this platform and discuss different business issues as well as opportunities.
As for my participation in the work of the Council, I proposed to create in Russia a special economic zone for businessmen and entrepreneurs from India where clear and transparent rules would apply.
To date, Indian businessmen, in order to enter the Russian market, have to act in fragmented ways, i. e. they have to negotiate with some private enterprises and with government representatives. Sometimes, they face language barriers as well as so-called “national behavioural particularities” of both Indian and Russian businessmen.
- So, indeed, there are ever-present nuances in different regions of our country despite a single legislation. Your company has plants in Ussuriisk, Irkutsk, Tyumen and St. Petersburg. Have you had to negotiate differently in each of these regions?
- Of course, but I am a citizen of the Russian Federation and I am aware of it. Another thing is that there is a big difference between what I know and what an Indian businessman knows. When all the rules are clear, they become transparent and entrepreneurs and investors have more confidence. That is why it is so important that there would already be an infrastructure, transport communications, etc. insuch a zone. But most important is to create a kind of a microclimate where Indian entrepreneurs would feel more comfortable and safer. For instance, they could be provided with a centralisedassistance on legal aspects and they surely need clear investment guarantees, the government ones.
A similar special economic zone should also be created in India for Russian entrepreneurs. I think it would be efficient. The work of such zones could be coordinated by trade representatives at the embassies of both countries. I am sure it would give impetus to a reinforcement of cooperation.
We will continue discussing such issues within the Business Council, and I believe it will deliver something. Anyway, creating such a special economic zone would be very useful.
- How do you think, in what sectors of the economy has the partnership between Russia and India been most successful? And in what sectors is the potential for development still much greater than the advances already made?
- I can’t say that I am an expert on India ... I believe it would be better to ask these questions to the Indian Deputy Ambassador for Commercial Affairs, he could provide you more details, since he knows these issues firsthand. I can express my entrepreneur’s vision. There are many areas where Indian and Russian businessmen could work together. First of all, they could cooperate in the area of information technologies. It’s being developed both in Russia and in India, and it means that it can be a subject for cooperation. The same is true for the pharmaceutical industry. The potential it possesses has not been realised yet. Of course, India has both technologies and opportunities, but, for some reason, the volume of Indian investment in Russia is still low, although this could be improved. Another area is textiles. I know there are very good high-tech companies emerging in India, and they are doing great work in this direction. Perhaps, we could jointly develop other traditional areas as well.
Russia has certainly much more opportunities. Besides its traditional energy sector, it has also potential in mechanical engineering, military equipment, etc. To my mind, there are vast prospects for the development of the forestry industry. There is a huge demand for timber in India, and it’s possible to increase the Russian export of forest products by at least several billion dollars in the years to come.
We should continue working, and there is potential, of course, which has definitely not been realisedyet.
- You have already mentioned the pharmaceutical industry, but I would like to precise: in your view,at what level is cooperation between Russia and India in this area? What's hindering and what is rather contributing to it?
- Unfortunately, Indian pharmaceutical industry in Russia is not growing. What's hindering it? India mainly produces generic drugs, i. e. copies of the original drugs. While in Russia, the pharmaceutical industry has made a tremendous progress over the past 7-10 years, including through government support thanks to the Pharma 2020 Program. More than 5 billion dollars have been invested, over 35 plants have been built. Russian pharma is capable now of producing these copies itself, so, there is no longer a need in Indian generic drugs. To date, there is an import substitution in Russia, and most of the goods imported from India have been successfully replaced with nationally (in Russia) produced products.
The Indian side could develop and further contribute to this industry through investment in the production of pharmaceuticals or their raw materials in Russia. But, for some reason, Indian partners are still thinking on it ... And they are quite reluctant to make investment. Indian business could increase its turnover and its presence in the Russian market only through investment in the pharmaceutical industry in Russia, that could incentivise the greatest part of their activity in our country. I believe that they will “mature” over time and will start investing in Russian industry.
- Do you mean the construction of new plants in Russia or cooperation with the already existing enterprises?
- Both, in fact. Fundamentally, they should come and build their plants, invest in their construction as well as in the creation of some original technologies. But if the project is quite small, then there is room for cooperation with the already existing Russian enterprises. Indian investors could come and start producing their own drugs jointly with them.
- Now, let’s talk more specifically about Pharmasyntez and its cooperation with partners from other countries. How interesting is such cooperation for you? And what is it about: developing innovative drugs and dosage forms or acquiring licensing rights for their production and commercialisation?
- What is our main task? I mean not only that of Pharmasyntez but also that of other companies of the sector. I believe that it is ensuring health of a person, of a patient, as well as conditions for a reliable health care system. In this respect, no single company could ever guarantee absolutely everything. That is why in order to achieve this result (I mean making life better), all the pharmaceutical companies in the world need to cooperate with each other.
In fact, it also takes place. On the one hand, we often come to an agreement with foreign partners, transfer their technology to our sites, obtain licenses from them, and manufacture under these licenses. On the other hand, we develop drugs ourselves, both generic and innovative ones. To date, on the contrary, thanks to our experience and wide range of acquired skills we issue our licenses to foreign companies in order to let them produce our drugs on their territory and work for the benefit of all mankind.
- Diseases have no borders…
- Absolutely.
- In 2016, at a meeting with Vladimir Putin, you talked about a compulsory licensing scheme which in critical circumstances could help save tens of thousands of lives. You also said that in such countries as India and Brazil, this practice already exists. What about Russia? Has such a decision been taken? Has anything changed?
- If I'm not mistaken, just recently, the deputies supported the law on compulsory licensing, and it will be adopted soon in our country.
But some clarifications are needed here ... Some colleagues have misinterpreted my proposal, in particular, my words said to President Vladimir Putin. I proposed to apply a compulsory licensing system only in the case of an epidemic or some other kind of a disaster. Exclusively in such a case! And then only if copyright holders – it doesn't matter whether they are foreign or Russian ones – independently deny the availability of modern drugs to patients. It can only be applied in these circumstances, and not in order to let someone enrich himself through someone else's intellectual property under the guise of a system of compulsory licensing. I am absolutely against it. The copyright holder should enjoy the right to earn money from his developments. Copyright infringement must be punished to the fullest extent of the law.
Let me give you an example. One foreign company sells its HIV drug at a fairly high price. And journalists have recently contacted me to find out my opinion on this issue. They said, “but there is a compulsory licensing!” And I responded that this case relates to no epidemic or disaster in Russia, which means that I don't see a need here to apply a compulsory licensing. Another thing is that the manufacturer itself should realise that there are much more people in need of such a drug than the state can afford. It should remember what is called in Russia “a social responsibility”, and, possibly, either reduce the price, or voluntarily transfer the license for the production of this drug to any Russian company in order to ensure greater availability of these drugs to save more people, to let more people survive.
And it is not at all necessary that Pharmasyntez should become the company that would receive such a license. Let the copyright holder decide. And it is sad to hear people, lobbying for someone's interests, saying that “Vikram Punia stands for taking away someone else's intellectual property for the purpose of enrichment”. It is absolutely false!
- If you met today the President of Russia again, what would you tell him, and what would you ask him?
- Topics are arising all the time, and there is always something to talk about with the head of the State ... like what we should do to make life better, including with the support of the pharmaceutical industry, because pharma is quite an important issue not only for me, but also for all people, for any country. I can offer various options of how to improve this sector, suggest the laws that could be needed therefor. There is always something new happening in the world and in the country. It means that new ideas are constantly emerging. So, we have to look around at the moment when such a conversation would be possible…
But on the other hand, we have already quite well implemented our ideas. We work very closely with the Ministry of Industry and Trade, and I am very grateful to it. It is a very open ministry, and it always supports us and provides its feedback really promptly. In my view, more progress has been made in the pharmaceutical industry over the past seven years than in the entire period of the modern history of Russia. And it makes me very happy.
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Interviewed by Alexey Sokolsky